Disclaimer
So turns out I was all fiery on the subject and wanted to be all fiery… to get the juices running and people thinking.
But either people agree anyway or the people that don’t agree would just be set into a combatative mode.
So really what did I do?
I still believe we should be passionate about the subject.
I’m not a father.
But I was a child.
And sometimes truths/ideals are just what they are.
“I’m waiting to have kids”
I would just like to comment on something I hear people say often, being a wedding photographer and around lots of people getting married.
They say: they want to wait to have kids until they are financially more well off.
My response...
{deleted by me Imagine what you will, haha}
Yes I’m stirring the fire and getting you believers of this flawed logic riled up… I know this.
But think through things {Edited}
Maybe you SHOULD wait to have kids. 
Do you really think the best kids are those who’s parents have the most money?
Do you really think that raising a kid without turmoil or hardship makes for the best environment for a kid with good morals and strong character?
I’m not saying plan on being poor!
Do you understand where I’m coming from?
And if you can’t understand what I’m trying to point out and the prophets who said don’t make up excuses as to why you don’t want to be obedient to the command to bring forth kids into this world… then yes I support you in you not having kids yet.
In fact remember how enough is never enough… believe that junk too.
Enough IS Enough
Don’t go with the sound ideal that Hugh Nibley taught when asked how much money or stuff is “Enough” when he said “Enough IS Enough” (Sarcasm intended)
What children need
But seriously… sometimes what they need is to see a lighthouse in a storm or a boulder in a rushing river.
They need to see the example of you the parents weathering the storm and being an immovable and stalwart example no matter the hardships. That is among the best things they could ever experience.
{Deleted to be nicer}
I’m sure you know how I feel by now.
And if you want to say… But Scott… It’s hard in this economy and this world and it’s getting more expensive to raise kids.
Point hasn’t been gotten!!
Well when you do get your magic riches and weath… I hope you pick a DOG to raise instead of a child. {half kidding… yes i’m trying to include humor…}
What it all comes down to:
You can have a plan for life… (lets hope you have a good one)
But the lord might have another… and if you’re too stuborn to change it up. Sucks for you.
May i include… that perhaps this means you are meant to wait for a long time to have kids.
I’m not questing your choice of when to have kids… it’s this pretend logic you give to cover your selfishness (if it is the case)
Can I get someone to back me up?
Oh ok you can have a turn President Benson:
“Mothers who enjoy good health, have your children and have them early. And, husbands, always be considerate of your wives in the bearing of children. Do not curtail the number of children for personal or selfish reasons. Material possessions, social convenience, and so-called professional advantages are nothing compared to a righteous posterity…
Young mothers and fathers, with all my heart I counsel you not to postpone having your children, being co-creators with our Father in Heaven.
Do not use the reasoning of the world, such as, ‘We’ll wait until we can better afford having children, until we are more secure, until John has completed his education, until he has a better-paying job, until we have a larger home, until we’ve obtained a few of the material conveniences,’ and on and on.
This is the reasoning of the world, and is not pleasing in the sight of God. Mothers who enjoy good health, have your children and have them early. And, husbands, always be considerate of your wives in the bearing of children.” (Ezra Taft Benson, “To the Mothers in Zion,” Parents’ Fireside, Salt Lake City, Utah, 22 February 1987.)
Emphasis added
Don’t start coming up with your thinking as to why the world thinks this foolishness.
Start thinking… why did a prophet of God think this wise counsel?
What were his reasons?
The answer you find will be enlightening
May 19, 2009 at 11:45 pm |
I totally agree with you. I would never wait to be ready to get married or to have kids… the best time is always NOW.
May 19, 2009 at 11:58 pm |
Well being ready is one thing!
Making crappy excuses is another.
Some people aren’t ready and it shows when they give the crappy excuses like money.
Because we all know money does not make kids better people.
It’s nice and all… but are you looking for well dressed kids so that YOU look good… or are you looking to raise fine human beings… they’re not frickin’ jewelry or adornments people.
May 20, 2009 at 12:05 am |
AMEN!
May 20, 2009 at 12:08 am |
Amen Scott. Insightful thoughts.
May 20, 2009 at 12:38 am |
OK yes… I know that this style of writing is combatative… but I gave the warning in the very beginning of the blog.
I’m trying to stir people up to think about this.
Don’t waste your time trying to tear down my stupid writing style.
Look at things for what they are.
Are you making a statement that money makes the kid?
Are you making a statement that lack of problems is a sure fire way of having a perfect life?
Yes it’s sad that money problems leads to family problems but… is that really the heart of the matter and will waiting until you are “stable” really be the answer… because look at this economy who says it will get better… should we all stop having kids until this recesion is over.
Because heck the kids that came from the great depression were probably all a bunch of slobbery lunatics with no sense of hard work and morals.
Because people having kids when they’re poor is so tacky and un-cool these days.
I think you’re connecting people without good princables and work-ethic to also poorly raised kids.
What am I saying?
Yes there’s plenty more to say? But do you really want to hear me go on and on and start quoting stuff.
Because I for one want you to start looking into the matter.
May 20, 2009 at 12:52 am |
I totally agree.
May 20, 2009 at 12:56 am |
You want to read more discussion on the subject
I just found this with many more quotes from actual knowledgeable people who I just get my ideas from.
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=41701&mode=threaded
May 20, 2009 at 7:50 am |
Hey Scott,
I enjoyed this post, thank you. We were planning on waiting until I finished college to have children. 5 months in the marriage though, we got a really strong feeling that “right now is the time to start”. So… we followed that. And let me tell you how grateful we are! Our lives have been so blessed by our oldest daughter in ways that we couldn’t have anticipated. Every day my wife and I talk about how grateful we are we started early, because having them enriches our lives in so many ways. A year after having the first we started on our second… and the joy has just compounded! We love our second daughter as much as the first and it just gets better and better. It has added so much meaning and fulfillment to life that no money or achievement could accomplish (though we still have money, and we still are progressing and achieving things, we just consider our children to be our greatest achievement).
June 16, 2009 at 9:19 pm |
Speaking as one who has a tough time getting kids to earth — only one so far — it utterly pains me when others don’t appreciate the fullness of joy they could experience, and instead sacrifice it for something so flimsy and inconsequential.
I. Love. Hugh Winder Nibley. …Have you read his bio — the Boyd J. Peterson one? Took an entire Nibley class @ the Y some years ago and now have the collected works.
July 18, 2009 at 1:56 am |
I like what you said “You can have a plan for life… But the lord might have another… and if you’re too stubborn to change it up. Sucks for you.”
I believe that is honestly the key to happiness… being willing to submit yourself to the Lord’s will, (and getting over any pride that might be getting in the way of that).
I agree with your post, but it’s not always easy saying this to those who are waiting to have kids.
I’ve been married 6 years and have 3 children… by the world’s standards I am poor, but I’d rather be poor with children than rich with none or whatever other excuse I could have made to put that off.
August 8, 2009 at 10:50 am |
Here’s my thing: you’ve made it pretty clear on other posts that you have little respect for a government that offers health care/welfare/etc and for people who use such services. But how do you expect every young newlywed couple to handle the expense of pregnancy, birth, and a baby? You criticize married couples for waiting until they are are financially self-reliant to have children, but also criticize people for using government-provided resources to help pay for the children they obediently had. Is the answer to not get married until you are financially self-reliant? Good luck convincing BYU co-eds of that plan
.
It’s also key to remember that when looking at another couple from the outside in, we really have no idea about their circumstances. How sad it would be to condemn a long-married couple for remaining childless without knowing perhaps of the infertility problems they face.
I think the answer is to remember that family planning is between husband, wife, and Heavenly Father. As of 2004, the church’s General Handbook of Instruction said the following about the matter:
“It is the privilege of married couples who are able to bear children to provide mortal bodies for the spirit children of God, whom they are then responsible to nurture and rear. The decision as to how many children to have and when to have them is extremely intimate and private and should be left between the couple and the Lord. Church members should not judge one another in this matter.”
And for the record, I was married five years ago at nineteen and have two amazing sons. My husband graduated from college when our oldest son was eight and a half months old and I will graduate in December with a three year old and a twenty-month old. We live on one modest income and don’t use any government-sponsored aid programs.
August 8, 2009 at 11:08 am |
I have little respect for any government that oversteps the mandated bounds it was placed in.
They can receive authority from those that they govern.
It is not within the mandate of our government to be in charge of everyone’s healthcare, welfare etc.
Besides that the many other arguments against them being in charge.
I think they’ve missed the mark on many other programs and will continue to do so with these.
These aren’t the only arguments against… but to take upon themselves this role with no constitutional role is just a usurpation of power and when they start with things like this… who’s to say they just won’t continue. There are many many things put into the constitution and bill of rights to protect the citizens… to protect us from what? Governments that have ALWAYS in history tried to overstep their bounds, been fought against, replaced and the cycle repeats itself.
You’re 100% right that the answer is family planning should be between husband, wife and heavenly father. – When did I ever say different.
To insinuate that I would say different is to stretch my words to mean what you wanted or thought I was saying. Kinda rude.
My premise was to say the rule of thumb is to not make money or education issues part of the decision making process.
But in all cases there could be another plan with our father in heaven’s help and planning in mind.
You should be proud to have made your decisions with inspiration. Any couple that does so is solid and should never feel guilty and people shouldn’t be judging them individually.
But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t as a group listen to church leaders that tell us what the typical best plan is… and teach it to others.
Don’t use money or education or etc… as an excuse. That’s a rule of thumb
Take another example don’t take too long to get married. Waiting until 30yrs old isn’t the rule of thumb.
I’m 30 and never married.
I am at peace, but I myself would still teach to not wait until 30 to get married it’s not what’s best for most people.
But apparently it was what was best for me.
August 8, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Shoot, this is why I usually avoid ‘debating’ issues; the odds of misunderstandings are high and often lead to unkind words and hurt feelings (i.e. I wasn’t trying to be ‘rude’).
My main objection was your classification of these young couples as selfish. As an outsider to their marriage, you don’t know how they arrived at the reasoning behind their decisions. Perhaps the reason they give for delaying pregnancy is that they want to be more financially secure, but the longer answer is that after prayerful consideration and supplication with Heavenly Father, they’ve received confirmation that they shouldn’t begin their family immediately but should instead seek to be able to provide for their family’s basic needs first. Or maybe they’re just selfish. Either way, it remains between them and Heavenly Father.
I agree that we should listen to church leaders and teach it to others, but hopefully we can do so in a more positive way. I’d venture to guess that you know that as well, since you’ve obviously edited an earlier version of this post to be “nicer”
. Life is hard enough as it is; as brothers and sisters within the gospel we have the opportunity to love and support one another – let’s take that opportunity!
August 9, 2009 at 12:04 am
Yeah we can often be understanding with people.
My problem is people seem to think being kind and understanding with people means giving up what they have been taught and not sharing it with others for fear of offending.
We’ve been told not to make excuses to start families and that there are incorrect reasons to withold from raising kids sooner than later. (Or in my case to get married sooner or all those other many things, eat good food, not do work on sabbath day, etc etc etc)
Being firm and sharing these beliefs and mandates does not auotomatically equal judgement of others who do not do them.
We can believe in these things and be willing to give others benefit of the doubt that they have come to a different conclusion as a family with inspired guidance. (Whether it’s the truth or even as a cover up)
But to simply drop our beliefs because we fear they’ll offend others who have chosen another road… is silly.
bear no malice towards others… but be strong in supporting the prophets.
And as you said we should love and support eachother… Help them fulfill the words of the prophets is gotta be an awesome way to help someone and be supportive.
Help them make their life situation possible to do things they might have not thought possible.
So they don’t have to believe that their life situation happens to be outside the Rule of Thumb for what people are supposed to do. The “Everyone else but Us” philosophy.
I know what the lord wants his children to do… but it doesn’t apply to us… because….
Instead we should think:
How can they or we as a group of caring individuals help to make it possible for them to achieve and not need to or have to come up with excuses. (Valid or not)